As some of you know, I am obsessed with Auto5s, owning somewhere around 35 of them. As a former actual gunsmith, machinist, welder, (and retired county Swat sniper), in addition to having my own machine shop (thanks Dad), I've seen some pretty strange stuff in regards to broken guns. With that all being said, one particular LGS nearby calls me whenever they get an Auto5 in, whether it be for merely figuring out what they have, or a detailed cleaning before they put it up on the shelf, or repairs. (Needless to say, I have bought several of those home to keep the others in my safe company.) They called me a few days ago to tell me they have two in that they would like me to look at. One being a 20 Gauge round butt that won't eject anymore, the other being the gun shop owner's personal Remington Sportsman in 12 ga. Apparently it was in a house that burned down back when the owner was a youngster ( he is my age) and the shotgun was leaning up against a wall in the house, but not specifically IN the actual fire. He had since shot it a million times, even though it was ugly from the fire. The butt stock was black, but not charred, the receiver was kinda scorched. I went over and took both home. The 20, a 1964, was really clean on the outside showing minimal wear. The inside was holding about 3 pounds of Owyhee county goop, sand, some pine needles, etc. Not THE dirtiest I've seen, but close. The gun's owner told the shop he was admittedly not good at taking care of it. It did have the tell-tale signs of years of WD40, as I could see the infamous brown shellac everywhere on the bolt. As I'm looking all the parts over, cleaning and oiling them, I noticed the strangest wear on the forearm I have ever seen. There was a wear pattern in the wood that dug into the checkering at a a couple of definite different angles. I studied that thing for quite some time trying to figure out how it became worn like it was/is. I t kind of looked like it had been leaned up against something, maybe in a bed a of a pickup as it drove down 1500 miles of bumpy gravel wash boarded Idaho back roads. All it needed was removing all the gunk inside, a good cleaning and lubed. I put a new recoil and action spring in, as both were losing their interest in performing their appointed tasks. When I returned that gun, I pointed out the strange wear on the front wood and asked the shop's owner if he knew might have caused that. "Oh yeah, the owner only has one hand, and has a hook on the other one. He uses the hook to hold up the front of the gun." That's a first. Then I tackled the shop owner's Remington. I really avoid working on those, but he cuts me super deals, and calls me whenever they get one in so..... I pull his all apart and discover it is in excellent condition. The part of the story about being in a house fire seemingly had no affect on the gun, the outside was ugly, but all the springs looks fine. EXCEPT......as I removed the smaller screw that retains the stock screw, I noticed the stock screw itself wasn't tight. That in-and-of-itself isn't unusual. I removed the stock retaining screw and noticed it was a lot shorter than a Browning screw. Hmmmm, must be one of the Remington minor differences I hear about. When I pulled the stock off, I heard something hit the floor. Odd, I wonder what that could have been, maybe a primer from decades ago? Nope. Upon close inspection, it was the threaded portion of the stock retaining screw. No wonder it looked so short! That screw snapped off right at the beginning of the threads. Think about that, there is no way a person could have over tightened that down with the thin flat blade slot in the head of the screw. I can't imagine how much torque would have had to been applied to break it off. There is no stress to that screw, other than keeping the wood from traveling rearward off the receiver. The break was old,. as dirt and soot/carbon were on the two mating surfaces. The threads in the receiver tang were fine. Dirty, meaning the broken piece wasn't actually threaded up in there, apparently it must have been in there somewhere else. I can't figure it out. Let's hear some of your strange repairs.
My second shotgun — a used IZh-27 had those same marks on the forearm for the same reason. As for the broken screw, it could be that the fire has made the metal brittle. I have a WWII Walther PP that had the firing pin break, then the safety, and finally a smidgen of the rail. I’ve quit shooting it as I suspect it’s been through a fire.
Once I got up to about 5 or so, I decided I was going to try to get one of every year. Each one gets me closer! I bought a "parts" gun with an ugly butt stock (not FN/Browning, certainly aftermarket) that didn't fit the receiver tang at all. It was bad enough that I questioned if it wasn't off of a Auto5 clone. The trigger tang was way out of whack relative to how it fit into the wood. Upon closer inspection, turns out it was a straight stock trigger housing (and receiver) that someone tried to bend to accept the pistol grip on the wood. I had to CAREFULLY bend the trigger housing tang back to where it was when it left Belgium. Once I did that, I tossed a straight stock on it and Bob's-your-Uncle. (The difference is in the angle of the threaded hole for the stock retaining screw. It is a different angle for a straight stock as opposed to a more common pistol gripped stock.)
There was a time in my misspent-misguided youth that I decided I was going to try and collect one of every '98 or '96 Mauser with country receiver crests like Mexico, Columbia and such. The enormity of the task seemed achievable. Yet, must have something to do with all those brain cells I killed in college. That goal died a quiet death....
Oops...In my advanced years I forgot. Refresh my aged memory about what I was looking for. I've got an enormous cold, and just couching out for the next few days. I can open the safes and drag a few out.
Sure. Let’s look at the evolution of the receiver shape. This first picture is of a 1903 model. By 1909 there was a reinforcing “bump” at the bottom. This gun is from 1931. Then, sometime in the 50’s, the bump became much more subtle. I never noticed until someone pointed it out to me. This particular gun was made in 1957. My 1953 standard 12 still sports the old bump. So sometime between 1953 and 1957.
(Stripped threads in the carrier screw lock screw?) Ok, sadly, with my most and humbled deepest regrets, apparently I do not have a 1952. However my 1949, 1950 and 1951 has the more pronounced "bump". My 1953 has the reduced area. So, I think from that we can extrapolate it was either 1952 or 1953 when they made the change. (My 54, 55, 56, and up-- all have the slimmer lines.) And, whilst ( I love using that word) we are talking about the missing lock screw, I am considering have a local shop that specializes in making small stuff like that--make me a hundred. The final number will depend on how many I need to order so I can get a better price. Many of the guns I buy are usually missing one (or all) and I'm tiring of buying them a few at a time for way more than they should cost.
Thank you, Bill! Since my 1953 has the pronounced bump and yours doesn’t, I think we can safely say that was the year of the change. It was also the year Speed Load was introduced, and mine doesn’t have that either. Does yours? That’s an old picture of that gun. The dark circles are the original bluing, nothing is stripped. The lock screws have long since been replaced with new ones, giving the receiver a rather pockmarked appearance. It may go for a re-blue someday. As for the screws, good luck with that. I am very grateful that Midwest Gun Works still offers parts for these shotguns. So I’ll buy the screws from them. As my father once told me “Let them nick you a little bit”.
I have two 53's. I just looked, both have the slimmed smoother receiver lines, one has Speed Load, the other does not. I do all of my Auto5 business with Art's. Midwest Gun Works won't take a money order, and I don't use (or own) FTCs.
Wasn't 53 when FN stopped stamping the screws with the serial numbers too? As well as no longer stamping the serial number on the barrel?
Yes, in 1953 they gradually quit stamping the barrel and barrel extension with the serial number. On my 1953 standard 12 the numbers appear, but it’s off by 4 on the extension. Breech blocks and screws lost those stamps in 1950. Mine is early 1953, I’m guessing yours are later.
Whilst we're on this tangent---when was the wood action spring guide replaced with plastic? How about the switch from the narrow guide/slot between the locking block and the breech block? (That might be in the bible too, I should read it through a couple more times.) I think the bible has a picture detailing when the magazine tube cap switched styles (number of bands of serrations). As I recall there were a handful of minor changes in 1953. I like knowing these odd ball changes, as it sure helps when I open one up and try to determine if someone else was playing around inside.
Again, another unusual "repair" I had to do was early in my quest. I bought one from a LGS that allegedly was "messed up". The guy brought it in, said thew gun all of a sudden wouldn't cycle---in actuality he must have meant he couldn't cycle the action, as in cocking it to get a shell from the magazine up into the chamber. It was stuck, but strangely not a "hard kind of stuck. It was a barely moveable kind of stuck. I was thinking broke carrier lifter spring. The LGS didn't want to open it up, and apparently I walked in at just the right moment. I got it home, started exploratory surgery, being careful to watch for extra pieces falling out as I go. Once I got the trigger housing out, a dime sized piece of clear silicone rubber was found up along the breech block.It was jammed in there with extreme prejudice. It was chewed up a little, but for the most part still intact. Hmmmm. I continued with the autopsy, finding nothing else wrong. I also noticed the front (rear?) of the magazine follower was real shiny, and had minute pieces of the same clear silicone still attached. Hmmm. My deduction was the previous owner----for whatever reason---- placed a large dab of silicone on the flat of the follower, maybe to have some affect on the interaction between the follower and the front of the first shell in the magazine. Eventually the "pad" of silicone came off and went up inside. Who know what evil lurks.....
I don’t know when they went to a plastic action spring plug. My guess would be the early 60’s when the butt plate became plastic also. SV isn’t good with the internal details. They do mention that the 3 ring mag cap appeared in the 70’s. I don’t think they mentioned which year. The new style breech block and locking block appeared with many other changes in 1958. I think I learned that from one of Art’s videos.
Yes I shoot with guy that has hook and uses autos. You get funny bruise mark wear on bottom of forend where gun rests on hook back curve jumps up n down with recoil when fired
