Hi Ranger and others, Been listening to lot of talk and science about California stopping lead shot for hunting and now clay range activity. It has roused my interest to have a bit of an experiment . My trusty 1100 is steel rated and so is chokes. That box ticked. My experience with steel is zero.We are long way off that situation here yet and there is certainly nothing commercially available to even try. However have found somebody who has a bag of no 6 steel onn the shelf covered in an inch of dust. Would like to reach out for a few ideas on what would be a good specialty wad and powder combo to start with for a one oz , 1300fps in no 6 steel shot. Shells will probably be straight wall Eurotrash or . Figure from what I learned that would be a good all round start point to work patterns and choke from I believe you guys have special powders branded and sold for steel. Any ideas or advice? I can probably buy and import a bag of wads from US without too much trouble. Thinking BP might have something
Ranger, noticed in your last post you have reloading data for rio straight wall and Clays powder. Is there a load data for a straight wall steel load that uses Clays or other data that uses Clays as Propellent? ADI is same stuff and can get my hands on some? Our AS 30 is what you use and AS 50 is the slower burning one . You obviously have access to lot of data on pressures I don’t. Goal will be to ultimately try achieve a 7/8 oz load at say 1300fps with the no 6 pellet size. That from guessing should equal a std 1200 light load and match performance and pattern expectations. What don’t want is recoil. Have a flick through your book for me.
auzzie: I haven't loaded steel for a long time, I do have some steel loads somewhere at home. I will look tonight. I assume 12 gauge? The problem I see here is 7/8oz and 1300 fps with light recoil. Most of my steel loads were 1500-1700 fps, at that time I didn't load straight wall hulls. Not sure the "clays" powder is gonna cut it either. Yes over here were have a lot of powder choices, or should I say we did. One powder comes to mind, there may be others but, the powder called steel works well. The patterns with steel shot will not be as easy with lead, not saying it can't be done but will require some work and the correct wad. My first place to look would be Ballastic products for wads. The wads of today are much better then 20 years ago, so many more choices. BP has lots of loads, the problem is that the stacks heights just don't match up and some of their loads are in left field. The pressure and velocity are not correct. I have heard that a lot of their loads are done on a computer and never make it down the barrel to a pattern board. I have loaded some of their loads and had stack height issues. I have the complete Rio manual and there are many loads in there, just from a glance you can tell there will be issues. When and if they make lead a thing of the past here in Texas I will probably move to bismuth shot.
Great info thanks for that. I did some research last night on SW and found recent post where somebody asking pretty much same question looking for 7/8 light steel load in no 6 for blasting doves and sporting clays. Somebody came back with recipe using cheddite with 209 and PT 1253 wad. Powder was Green Dot at 19 grains for 1200 and 20 for 1300. A few came back and seconded that choice as being a good choice. Can possibly find Green Dot here know where might be able to find some. However I would be very apprehensive just diving in and doing that because somebody said so on a post without bit more research and second opinions. Does that recipe sound feasible to you? What I have learned is there has been lot ot inroads and testing done on steel in recent times especially with wads so they could get them to pattern well at lower velocities suitable for clay busting.
Done some checking AP 100 not easy found here now. What I did uncover is your” International is our old double base AS50. This would be comparable to Greendot and I still have some. Be interested if there is some data you uncover to support its use. Also spotted a recipe that uses 23 grains Universal for 1300fps steel load. That’s our old double base AP70. Excellent for 20 /28 target stuff. Unfortunately few years back now they had a fire at the powder plant RUN !!! And the 70 and other lines got destroyed. When they rebuilt they elected to drop 70 completely and phase out others replacing with new single base designs. What your getting would be old recipe made in the sister plant in Canada. It’s great product and your so lucky to be able to get it. Also found somebody local who is now a BP agent so I can probably get hands on some wads. He has a lone dusty bag on shelf of CSD078 which are a 7/8 for steel. Suddenly looks like it might be possible to have a play.
Did some searching and found in Rio hull 19 grains of green dot with PT1253 and 366 grains of steel #6. That’s 7500 psi and 1200 fps. 21 grains GD same everything else get you 8000 psi and 1265 fps.
I have some load data for the csd wad but nothing in the powder you mentioned. I very seriously doubt a full 7/8 of steel will fit the wad you have. I have another manual on the way that was free with an order from BP. Probably be a couple weeks out. I can let you know if there is anything in it. Looks like the pt1253 has lots of loads. Let me know if you can read the picture. And you will be ok with cheddite hull, little less room in cheddite then Rio. Forgot to ask, the csd wads that you got, are they slit?
Thanks so much. That was exactly the info I was looking for from a trusted source. From your chart gives me more than enough information and confirms my thoughts. I didn’t just go buy the CSD 078 yet so will try find the PT 1253 or get him to order in for me. Not in any hurry as this is play around sideline project. The CSD don’t have a slot and are for steel. Between myself and shooting buddy also passionate reloader we should have it covered One thing there is no shortage of is straight wall cases to find one with a base wad that gives the right stack height. The Toads won’t know themselves having a non toxic pellets raining down on them. They might taste better too as the dam things eat anything that moves. Have a look up what a Cane Toad is! Talk about ecological disaster of the highest degree Some genius in the 30’s thought be good idea to introduce to eat the Cane Beetles. What didn’t figure was beetle flys and sits on top of stalk why toad is stuck on ground. Figure that one.
auzzie: most steel wads that you will get today will come un slit and you must slit them yourself. The cane toad is a large, warty, poisonous amphibian native to South and Central America and considered to be one of the worst invasive species in the world. That came from goggle. that's enough for me..... blast away! Been doing some reading on the PT1253, looks like your not going to get a full 7/8 oz in this wad either, from what I read looks like 11/16 to 3/4. FYI
Ranger, question for you. The PT 1253 who makes them? I see BP list them which I can probably get our local agent to do but he gets a 2/10 customer service and dedication rating. . Also where would be another place to go fishing for them in states be ? I have buddy in Florida who could buy and mail on. I see you talk of Graphs is that another independent reloading supplier over your way? Lastly how many slits do you put in wad 4? 6? And just with thin blade box cutter I presume so as it can petal out and slow down To separate from shot string? Without enough gap to be contacting bore.
Auzzie: Sorry for the long post but, this is something I had on my computer, that I used when I shot steel. It is from BP so I pasted it here for you. As a handloader, you have an advantage of creating specific, workable combinations that are not possible with high-speed production techniques. You can consider each component and utilize it for maximum performance advantage. Much of what happens to a shot charge is initially dictated by the wad and the shotgun barrel(s). The wad is the carrier of the shot and is routed through tight barrels and chokes at high speed and pressures. The wad petals are a point of control that the hand-loader can utilize to fine-tune a load. Custom wad slitting is for a hunter who wants the last 5% of performance potential. The art of wad slitting may seem complex at first, but it is actually a simple method of pattern control.
Though most of BPI’s one-piece hunting wads are sold pre-slit with a standard 4-petal configuration, unslit versions are often available. These unslit wads offer the handloader unparalleled load control to match barrel characteristics and shooting requirements. Custom slitting with different sizes and numbers of petals will create new pattern reactions. As with all masterpieces, the hand-loader will have to practice his art before it is perfected.
Pellet Variables As the number of pellet types has increased, so has the number of variables to wad slitting. Factors of barrel dimensions and composition of the load produce specific pattern results. Dimensional variables include bore width [barrel measurements differ from shotgun to shotgun by a considerable amount], the character of the propellant, and the relationship of the shotcup and the pellets themselves. Keeping the pellets together and moving quickly is the shotcup’s job in producing superior hunting loads. Each set of variables will require its own unique attention from the hand-loader. For example, the hard, dense ITX-13 pellets provide excellent pass shooting patterns, even at the farthest reaches. However, in order to not destroy game at short ranges, we add a couple more slits to the wad to open up the pattern.
The BPI lab recommends that hand-loaders begin with four long, evenly spaced slits in the wad. This will establish a baseline of a standard pattern from which to build upon. Then, try different numbers and length of slits to achieve the best results at a given range using a pattern board. Fewer slits will contain the pellets longer and more slits will release the shot sooner. Look for consistency with the pellet sizes you will be using in the field. Make notes concerning each shotgun and load type. Wad slitting is not an exact science. Due to the number of variables between the shotgun, choke, shotcup, and slitting pattern, we cannot predict how every combination will react. You will have to practice and experiment and tailor it to your needs. Keep in mind that outside influences such as weather can also have an effect on your results. The quest for the perfect load is a great excuse to go crack off a few hunting rounds in the off season.
The two-petal cuts are used for exceedingly tight patterns at long range – the turkey hunter’s cut. Some overbored 10 gauge barrels can handle the two-petal cut down to the base of the wad. Tighter bores require more slits in the wad. Most barrels will also handle the three-petal cut very well, which still allows the shooter very tight patterns at longer range. (The three-petal cut should be ¾ the length of the shotcup.) In general, crosswinds will hinder flight performance of wads with the two-petal cut more than others. Every so often, we find wads that are split apart. This is caused by the force of the shotcup hitting the air outside the barrel. The shot has long left the wad so the split is a moot point. However, if this bothers you, then more petals is the answer. You do not see this occur in wads with four petals because the air wall is more evenly displaced. Additionally, the tough plastic used in some shotcups may resist proper opening in cold air when only two petals are used. This can adversely affect pellet distribution. However, these are just things to keep in mind when using two-petal configurations and should not detract you from the practice. We have many customers who swear by this method. More than four petals [up to eight] can be used for tightly-constricted shotguns, special loads of large shot sizes, and short range shooting with fine pellets. To accommodate long barreled shotguns with tightly constricted chokes we have used an increased number of longer slits. Four petals or five petals are recommended for very tight barreled 10 gauge shotguns. If an X-stream™ spreader insert is used, a four, five, or even six petal wad is suggested. We have been completely successful in obtaining decent patterns at shorter ranges with a very long barreled, non-altered, tightly constricted shotgun, simply by adjusting the wad slits. For increased distance, we go back to our standard 3 or 4 slits and the same shotgun shines in this application as well. How long should the slits be? Petals at least two-thirds the length of the entire wad are required for complete pellet release. This is the minimal length that allows pellets to escape from the very bottom of the deep shotcup, thus creating uniform downrange patterns. To achieve tighter patterns, start by reducing the length of the slits (in 1/8” increments). Generally, reducing slit length offers the first opportunity to “fine-tune” patterns. However, as you continue to shorten the slits, you will sooner or later discover the limit of workable adjustment and patterns will begin to look “patchy”. This is the time to start changing the number of slits in your shotcup. Finer pellets (#3 and smaller) tend to perform better with longer petal slits.
Next: They are the reworked VP wads. I believe a place called Propulsion technologies makes them, and BP sells them. If I remember right the old VP wads use to have powder migration issues. The new PT wads have a much better seal. The places I use is of course BP, Precision reloading, and Graf and Sons reloading, and Recobs Target Shop. They each have their plus, precision is pretty fast on shipping, and offer some things that others don't, esp in the fiber wad loading.
Wow ! That’s awesome information you don’t find just anywhere. OK my shooting buddy couldn’t resist so he went and bought the 1 packet of csd 078 and only bag of 7 steels on shelf for us to play. We’re both settled on the green dot so by luck we might actually have something worth while to contribute. A range near us has suddenly banned lead shot on a particular certain one off layout due to so called contaminated runoff so they started selling Winchester Xperts in steel 7 at 1oz 1325fps at the counter for that one layout. The Slug nut shoots at this place so he got us some used wads to look at off ground for idea on depth and number of slits etc.They look like those pt 1253 but slightly longer. I don’t like their compulsory range price of $18 a box. That’s off the planet for my affordability standards and price gouging. I think I will be long dead by time it replaces lead here but that is certainly the first inroad I have heard of here under range conditions. Regardless it’s neat to try things and have bit of fun along the way. People think your nuts for reloading but don’t realise what they miss out on. We will endeavour to go shopping at places you suggest.
Ranger, Bit of a reach out again for my shooting buddy and our experiment. We did some research on line but can’t find any data for the CSD 078 that was for loading 7/8. We did however find data for 1oz on BP site . We got some green dot, wad and 8s so set for a try. Can you have scout around and see if you find any published data for that particular wad. We are going straightwall.
