Apparently Browning /FN made a run of 100 B25 shotguns in 20 gauge before the "mass production" was set up. I have consulted Ned Schwings book a bit on the topic but there are rarely any information available about the 100 pre productions guns. All 100 guns made to same specification stock, barrels etc.? information about prices when changing hands? How many of the 100 are known on the market? Any guns available on market currently? Cheers M-98
What source suggests there were ANY 'pre-production' 20 gauge Superposed? If it is apparent, then kindly elaborate.
In Ned Schwings book there is information about the 100 b25 20bore pre-production guns. I also met Browning collectors that talked about them. Now it would be interesting to know how many are still alive, configuration of the guns and so.
My wife gave me a copy of Schwing in 1996-7 and I usually retain the information therein since I am passionate about the history. I’m not familiar with the notion of ‘pre-production’ 20ga guns other than the ‘prototype’ ('the', being singular) pictured and mentioned in Schwing, therefore I cannot offer any useful or credible information to corroborate what may otherwise be an ‘old collector’s’ tail. (tale) Can you refer us to the page or section (from Schwing) where “100 pre-production 20ga” is discussed? It would be helpful. Re: The market - I have been researching (daily) the ‘market’ since 2014 and have never encountered such a gun (nor claim, thereof). I HAVE encountered ads with creative embellishments of Superposed production history that would almost be comical if it didn’t further perpetuate misinformation and confusion among gullible buyers who have no access to credible documentation of the true ‘events’. Re: The current market - Is mostly saturated with crap, offering creative interpretations of production history and subjective descriptions with words like 'rare' (1 of 5000 or a 32" Broadway, or seller has never seen one or had one for sale until now), ‘estate find' (really? Whose estate? How long had it been lost?), 'special order' (yet, no documentation provided), 'special configuration' (means the re-stocker isn't capable of duplicating standard stock dimensions - or this is actually a composed 3-bbl set), 'full restoration' (only perceived as such by the growing masses of trusting people who wouldn't have a clue what they're looking at, or apparently have never compared one with 'factory' original quality standards - externally and internally), 'factory letter' (Browning doesn't have a factory and FN doesn't offer 'letters'), 'factory case' (FN didn't make cases, so, from whose factory?), .........the list goes-on.....trying to portray the items as something they are NOT.......i.e., legitimate. I will always remember the explanation for a rib (on a 28ga Gr I) that resembled a Simmons-type replacement - described as a ‘prototype’. It also had a muzzle ‘barrel band’ or hanger for the bottom barrel, and no side or lateral ribs. To someone of average common sense and intelligence, it would be inconceivable or implausible that Browning would still be experimenting with rib designs at 28ga serial #116. After all, prototypes normally reflect ‘pre-production’ design development. The seller bought it for $3795 in September 2017 and listed it for $10,950 on October 26, 2017, then reduced to $9,950 on May 12, 2018. There is some comfort in the knowledge that......"None of us are as dumb as all of us"
Interesting topic . Hopefully the OP can supply a credible source for the pre production 20 gauges. As to Anatidae’s reply regarding various “catchphrases “ used by sellers (be they misinformed or outright misrepresentation) I’m beginning to believe that there is a list circulating amongst the “Mountebank’s “ operating under the guise of dealers used to lend respectability to the restocks , upgrades and otherwise molested Superposed. The proliferation of these guns seem to grow with each passing year. It will be interesting to see if there is some basis in fact regarding these 100 20 ga. guns or if its just another in a long list of “internet legends”. Inquiring minds want to know….
M-98 My comments were not directed toward you, but were specific to an unfortunate segment of the American market. Occasionally, I will note slight discrepancies in the European sellers’ descriptions but I believe most to be honest mistakes - not intended to mislead or trick the buyer. I’m not an expert because I still have more questions than irrefutable answers. There is nothing wrong with attempting to confirm the credibility of sources of information. I do it all the time. It’s how We determine what to retain and what to discard. I was merely urging others to do the same, reminding them that the Internet can be a frustrating source of misinformation and confusion. I hope you will follow-up. Cheers!
Timeline: January 18. 2023 - M-98 joined the forum (odd - I find no 'new member welcome' / 'introductory' post) February 5, 2023 - M-98's initial post re: The Browning Superposed Ned Schwing, saying, February 5, 2023 - M-98's 2nd post re: Pre-production B25 20ga. then the second phrase in this sentence appears to refer to other sources..... ......otherwise, the second half of the 2nd sentence refutes the claim made in the first sentence. February 11, 2023 - initial response by Anatidae - asking for confirmation of 'source' and asking M-98 to elaborate. February 12, 2023 @ 3:55 a.m. (CST) - M-98 confirms source..... February 12, 2023 @ 4:36 a.m. (CST) - M-98 last visited the site (logged-in). He could have visited since then, without logging-in. February 12, 2023 @ 7:11 a.m. (CST) - Anatidae's request for confirmation....... M-98 may or may not have seen this request. Perhaps he will eventually re-visit this discussion, log-in, and offer an update. It is now...... February 18, 2023 @ 8:16 a.m. I wish my fellow member from Sweden, well - in his pursuit of credible information. I have corresponded with other collectors in Sweden and have learned a great deal regarding a couple of very early pre-war Superposed guns. I am thankful for their generosity and appreciate their continued support in my ongoing research of the Superposed.
