1909 a5 16 gauge

Discussion in 'Browning Auto A-5' started by Ranger6, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. Ranger6

    Ranger6 .270 WIN

    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
    kumpe likes this.
  2. Rudolph31

    Rudolph31 .30-06

    Congratulations on your first year 16. These are very rare as only 3200 were made in 1909 and only a few were imported — for John Browning and family’s personal use.

    In redesigning the Auto-5 for the 16 Browning didn’t just scale it down, he shortened the receiver to save weight. That’s why part of the barrel extension is visible, and why the mag cutoff extends to the very front of the receiver. In fact, the front of the receiver is milled out to accommodate the cutoff.
  3. Rudolph31

    Rudolph31 .30-06

    I’ll post your pictures, but you can do it by pasting the link into the picture icon above.
    [​IMG]

    This a good shot of both the visible barrel extension and the milled edge of the receiver.
    kumpe likes this.
  4. Ranger6

    Ranger6 .270 WIN

    Thanks. I’m pretty happy with it. I plan on sending some pictures to art first and get his advice and then go from there. If it was repaired it was very well done.
  5. Rudolph31

    Rudolph31 .30-06

    Here’s the rest of Robert’s pictures:

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    kumpe likes this.
  6. Ranger6

    Ranger6 .270 WIN

    Waiting on art to give me a call about stock. I sent him some pictures, hope it’s good news.
  7. Rudolph31

    Rudolph31 .30-06

    Pre-WWII 16’s used 65mm ammunition, after the war 70mm (2 3/4”) became the standard. It takes a lot of work to convert a short chambered Auto-5 to cycle the longer shell, and converting a collectible would be a sacrilege. Polywad has the proper ammo, but it’s about $10/box more than standard 16’s. The solution is to roll your own.

    The easiest way to do that is to cut down a fired shell to length, use your normal recipe, and Hartin Crimp. To Hartin Crimp just use an overshot card and crimp it in place. You can accomplish the same thing with a roll crimp, but that’s a lot more work.
    [​IMG]

    The picture shows a factory 70mm shell with a 65mm Hartin Crimped shell. The unfired length is the same.
  8. Ranger6

    Ranger6 .270 WIN

    Are those 2 9/16? I know RST has 2 1/2 for 110 a case. They actually recommend those and are loaded for short chamber a5’s. You have to order. Probably not gonna find any here in Texas for tomorrow. Wanted to shoot it but won’t risk putting 2 3/4 in it.
  9. Rudolph31

    Rudolph31 .30-06

    I used to use BPI’s hull trimmer, a painfully slow process. Now I use this:

  10. Ranger6

    Ranger6 .270 WIN

    I may try it out. I shoot RST shells in my LC Smith and love them. So may just order and be done with it
  11. Rudolph31

    Rudolph31 .30-06

    That’s what I did initially. But as the collection grew I realized I needed a cheaper alternative. Also, most of my older guns are too tightly choked to be of much use at clay games, so loading my own allows the use of a spreader.

    https://www.ballisticproducts.com/X-Stream-spreader-insert-200_bag/productinfo/3220001/
  12. Ranger6

    Ranger6 .270 WIN

    Yep not sure what this barrel is but I’m guessing cylinder or full. I will be looking for another barrel that I can put chokes in for skeet shooting. I seen a 2 9/16. Hammer barrel last week on the net, but can’t find it now.
  13. Rudolph31

    Rudolph31 .30-06

    The one on the left is 2 3/4”, the one on the right is 2 9/16”. The point is that 2 9/16” is the fired length. A Hartin or roll crimped shell has the same unfired length and holds the same payload. Another advantage of the Hartin crimp is the stack height is variable. In this picture the shell on the left has a spreader, both hold 1 oz. of shot.

    [​IMG]
  14. Rudolph31

    Rudolph31 .30-06

    $110/case is a good price. The Polywad ammo is closer to $160. Plus shipping. If you want to shoot the gun today, you might have fewer malfunctions if you buy Remington Game Loads. Those shells average 67mm in length.

    By the way, all of the dimensions on your Auto-5 are Metric. Chamber length is shown on later guns as 16-65 or 16-70. If yours is indicated it’ll be something like D=65/19.0, which is length over diameter. And it’s just easier to type 65mm vs. 2 9/16”.
    [​IMG]
  15. Rudolph31

    Rudolph31 .30-06

    If you look at the bottom of the barrel, there should be two diameters there. The bottom is the bore, the top is the choke.

    EDIT: Here is Robert’s barrel:

    [​IMG]

    Look like FULL.
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
  16. Ranger6

    Ranger6 .270 WIN

    I know I seen something like 15.7 and 16.8 but will have to look again. Some of the stamping is really hard to see. Some of the stamping on the receiver is completely gone. But hey at 110 years what can you expect
  17. Ranger6

    Ranger6 .270 WIN

    I will run by ammo place and see if they have any remmy.
  18. Rudolph31

    Rudolph31 .30-06

    I should have mentioned that some think it’s not safe, as the crimp unfolds into the forcing cone creating a barrel obstruction. Personally I think it’s an exaggeration, but if the barrel blows up, don’t say I didn’t warn you. For what it’s worth, I waited for my 65mm shells to arrive... The difference is what I would do now versus what I did then.
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  19. Ranger6

    Ranger6 .270 WIN

    Good advice. I believe that this is a rare shotgun, got some really good news from art, so I will wait until the correct shells arrive
    Rudolph31 likes this.
  20. Rudolph31

    Rudolph31 .30-06

    Robert,

    Would you mind taking some pictures of all the markings on the barrel and receiver? I’m not likely to see a 1909 16 anytime soon.

    Thanks!

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