Federal 410

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Ranger6, Dec 7, 2021.

  1. Ranger6

    Ranger6 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator

    Haven’t posted in awhile. Got several projects going, but decided to go back to 410 loads for this weekend skeet. Lots of people I shoot with complain that the federal 410 hull is a problem to reload and the stack height is horrible. This load I picked off alliant web site. Federal hull2 1/2. Fed 209a primer, waa41 wad, 11.8 grains of 410 powder and 1/2 oz #9. Had to make slight adjustment to the mec.

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  2. Ranger6

    Ranger6 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator

    I have noticed that some of the hulls do have slight splits in them, they crimp ok, you may have one of the pedals in the fold that looks a little off. This will make no difference in my experience and will bust clays if you do your part.I’m gonna call this a good load and will report back after a round of skeet and maybe a little pattern work. The wad in the load isn’t available anymore, but will update with a newer wad incase someone is loading these.
  3. Ranger6

    Ranger6 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator

    Oops! Forgot to show the wad and stack height, so here it is. I am using the gaep pre crimp tool from Charles in 36 cal(410) image.jpg image.jpg
  4. Ranger6

    Ranger6 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator

    If your shooting 410 and buying shells, like me your probably only getting federal, so reloading only makes since at 15-? dollars a box. Couple tips I have learned that makes it a little easier and makes a good looking reload. When you fire the federal shells they don’t open up like the Winchester AA’s and it makes it hard to insert your wad, even after running through the de-prime station. So if you have a hull trimmer from Charles, it makes it easy to true the hull and open it up for wad insert. Your not taking off much, if you do you will have to make more adjustments
    image.jpg image.jpg
  5. Ranger6

    Ranger6 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator

    And if all goes well, you should be getting something like this

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  6. Ranger6

    Ranger6 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator

    Ok I wanted to do a little comparison of the federal hull and 3 different wads to show stack height. The load is all the same 11.8 grains of 410, federal 209a, and each selected wad. The claybuster wad is suppose to be a replacement for several wads. See pictures below. The wads are in the same order. The listed fps is 1230 and 11,800-12,000 psi straight from alliant. So with the federal or claybuster wad in the federal hull, your going to play like hell to get a decent crimp without raising the stack height. Some of these loads require 1/16” spacer to help raise stack height. The spacer is noted in the load data under notes. So the lesson here is to pick the right wad for the hull, and not all posted load data works in your favor especially with 410. I will attempt to correct the stack height with the suggested spacer. I will post my results.

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    Last edited: Dec 9, 2021
  7. Ranger6

    Ranger6 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator

    Shot the federal reloads today with the waa41 wad. They worked like a charm. 23/25 on skeet field with a 15-18 mph wind. What fun that was. Anyway that wad is no longer made and seems like everyone that has them thinks they are gold and want way to much for them. I went back to the Winchester 410 hs wad, that’s made and the most available. I added a 1/4” thick cork spacer in the bottom of the wad cup and loaded as normal. The shot is slightly above the wad. Will shoot those tomorrow, looking for the same results. To make the spacer I used a 410 drop tube and cork coasters from hobby lobby. They crimp pretty good. No adjustments from the waa41 wad.

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  8. Ranger6

    Ranger6 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator

    02D1BF33-BB86-4258-8F95-0015A0ECB038.jpeg Tool review: with the federal 410 and many other hulls at the deprime station the original mec deprime punch does what it’s suppose to,to a certain extent. The problem is the hull will not open enough to allow easy wad insertion. So I ordered a creative reloading solution ultimate knock out from Rudy. He makes good tools and you can see the results in the following pictures.
    This picture is of the ultimate knock out. The second is the original mec. The ultimate knock out does several jobs in one.

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    Last edited: Jan 3, 2022
  9. Ranger6

    Ranger6 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator

    Little more on these federals. I have been looking for a way to get one more load out of them. After about 3 firings the plastic stretches and makes them junk for fold crimping. I decided to try some roll crimps. I ordered the gaep roll tool from Charles and went to work. I found that the roll crimp depth with the gaep was about .100. This seems to deep to me, but had no other roll crimped shells in 410 to compare. I found someone that measured some European loads that were roll crimped from the factory and he reported .100-.110. I believe the crimp should be about .055-.060 deep. I have compared these to 12/16 gauge roll crimped shells which come in at the .055-.060 deep. I have tried less pressure, spinning the tool slow and faster and cutting some of the crimp off the hull. The gaep tool just doesn’t seem to care and still makes the roll to deep for me. I contacted Charles and through some google translate, managed to get him to understand. He has sent out a slug crimper to try. More to follow on that.
  10. Ranger6

    Ranger6 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator

    While waiting on slow post from Italy, I ordered one from precision reloading. Got it today so wanted to give it a try. The crimp depth is about.080 so an improvement, but without testing have no way of knowing for sure if they are where they need to be. Little bit on roll crimping. Saami provides measurements of fold/ roll crimp shells. That spec is 2.400”. There is a +/- on all the spec. I have several different factory shells and none of them are the same, some variation in the same box, however, they are all within the spec of +/-.
    These loads are the same 11.8 grains of 410, waa41 wad, 1/2oz #9 and roll crimped with 410 overshot card. I cut them down, leaving about 1/8” of old fold crimp, then roll.
    Remember there is some fold left, so the roll will never be as good as a new hull with a roll. These will also go out to be tested. I hope to see around 11,500 psi and 1200-1250 fps

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  11. Ranger6

    Ranger6 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator

    Well Charles came through with another 410 roll crimp tool. He wanted me to try the slug roll crimper. I tried it tonight and the roll is still to deep for my liking at over .100. I’m on the hunt for the old hand crank type if someone runs across one let me know please.
  12. win7stw

    win7stw .30-06

    I’ll look for one tomorrow at a gun show
  13. Ranger6

    Ranger6 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator

    Cool. Thanks.
  14. win7stw

    win7stw .30-06

    Any other goodies you are looking for?
  15. Ranger6

    Ranger6 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator

    Nah that should be good for now. I got another one coming from Charles again. I got a whole box of the gaep now.
  16. Ranger6

    Ranger6 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator

    The last gaep roll crimp was again to deep, with the roll at over .100. I have been hoping to find a hand crank roll tool, but so far no luck. Not sure which is worse my Italian or Charles’s English but he for sure tries, so not made at him for that. Anyway I wasn’t going to say anything to him again, as I felt we were not understanding each other. Then the next day I got an email from Charles asking about the new slug crimper. I didn’t want to be rude so I turned to google translate for the word to deep. Not sure if it was the right word that I found, but attached to a picture with the depth measurements. I put a big x in the picture and then put my desired depth measurements with a green thumbs up. I sent the email. After hitting the send button, I thought damn, hope I didn’t say something shitty. Well today I got another crimper from Charles. He must have understood cause now the crimps are at.070. Just a tad over my normal roll of .055-.065, but good enough.

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