Black Friday identification challenge

I pulled from my collection three John Browning designs that I would to challenge you to identify. Your prize will be a warn applause. Good luck

1903 Browning at top. Pre-1928 Remington Autoloading Shotgun or Model 11. And a JMB designed pump made by Stevens — but I read Stevens on the receiver.

I should have known and disqualified Rudolph from the challenge. I was able to trick him once but not twice. But there is still one additional detail about these three shotgun to be discovered. The Browning is not obvious but the Remington (1909) and the Stevens 522 (pre first war) are easy to see.

Glad I’m disqualified, Biz, because I don’t have a clue. Also, the Browning is first year but not 1903.

No clue on the additional detail but I love the checkering pattern on the Remington and Stevens forearm

One more thing Marc. I’m still waiting on those adoption papers.....

You’re right about everything Rudolph , this was no challenge for you. Concerning the Browning it has the "Browning Automatic Arms co Ogden Utah U.S.A" address and I always wonder if they were all part of the first order that went to the U.S. in 1903 ?
The additional detail is related to the buttstock.

I am sorry, I lost the adoption paper.

Dang it I had to try

S/V says no guns went to the US after 1903 until 1923. But I believe that some, if not all of the first 10,000 were marked like that.

Still don’t see what you’re hinting at.

Someone put a recoil pad on a straight stock?

Great post Marc. I enjoy learning as much as I can about these beautiful guns

I am of the opinion that on the 10000 original order, at least 8000 examples were shipped in 1903 may be beginning of 1904 to the U.S. and the 2000 remaining sold to Canada. As potential evidence, I have serial 7535 with the barrel address "Ogden Utah" that was originally purchased in the U.S.. Then I have 5 examples in the 8000 serial number with the barrel address "Fabrique Nationale Herstal" that I purchased in Canada. Those were probably sale in 1904 since they have the suicide safety. As we know, unlike the U.S., the sale of FN Browning auto-5 was not interrupted from 1904 to 1923. I think it is unlikely that the auto-5 showing the "Ogden Utah" barrel address were sold elsewhere but the U.S. can anyone comment on that including Rudolph (but not if flying).


Regarding the other detail relating to the stock, traditionally the Remington Autoloading Shotgun and the Stevens pump were sold with a pistol grip. When they were sold with a straight grip, they were most of the time in trap configuration. Which is the case in the challenge Photos. Following S.&V. the auto-5 offered in 1903 with checkered stock was a Trap model, page 56 and 158. But the two shot model, page 56, may be ordered in all grades, which may imply I suppose checkered??

OK, I haven’t been flying, but I never can answer your questions off the top of my head so I’ve got to wait until I have time to provide a (hopefully) rational response.

According to S/V, only 4121 Auto-5’s were produced in 1903. That’s logical because it says the first off the assembly line wasn’t until September 17 that year. They also say that only 2500-3000 of those guns were shipped to the US, and none after that. They make no mention of how they were marked; I’ve often wondered if the first 10,000 guns, originally intended for the US, weren’t marked that way.

So I disagree with you about 8000 guns shipped to the US in 1903. And not just because it disagrees with The Book, but because they just weren’t made that fast.

Serial number 7535 with the Ogden address, and other guns in the 8000 range with Herstal, is good to know. So probably the first 8000ish guns were so marked before the change. But how do you know that gun was originally sold in the US? That directly contradicts S/V and would be a revelation. They specifically say that no Auto-5’s were imported to the US after the end of 1903.

As to the straight grip on the Remington, that’s how you fooled me the first time. I’ve never seen a RAS or Model 11 with a straight grip. And I wonder how it supposedly helps Trap shooters.

Also, what’s up with the front sight on the Browning?

I have the word of an old man from whom I purchased the Shotgun. That gentleman who live in Canada close to U.S border pretends to have inherited the shotgun from is uncle who was living in Waterville U.S.A. Is was not clear to him which Waterville in the New England State it was.
If the FN was not capable to produce 8000 shotgun in 1903, let assume they produce 4121 or 5000, why would they, in 1904, keep stamping the Ogden address on the barrel of the shotgun that they knew they were not going to sell in the U.S. ?

I don’t know, Biz. Maybe the barrels were run off first.

That is the only possible explanation. To conclude this post, I purchased an auto-5 from France that came with a second barrel, S.N. 420. It has the Herstal address.